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Suzy CA USA

My posts are presented as opinion and commentary and do not represent the views of LabSpaces Productions, LLC, my employer, or my educational institution.

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Monday, January 18, 2038

I read a lot of posts about being a mom in science and all of the challenges involved. In my daily life at work, and when I am traveling, most of the business women or scientists I speak to and interact with are moms. Certainly, I find that I am in the minority when it comes to motherhood. Very few women get to my age without having a couple kids. Even in Dr. Blackburns' talk, she probably spent the most time on the question about being a mom and a scientist and it was very interesting to hear how she managed during her child rearing years.

 

I am not a mom. I'll never be a mom. I made that decision a long time ago, years before I would even be faced with that choice.

I always thought or maybe convinced myself that a woman cannot have a career and have kids. It wasn't possible to be good at both. So I had to choose.  Where did this belief come from?

Well, of course it came from my own mother. No, my mother never said these words to me. Not these exact words. It was through actions that I received this message.  Actions that drove me to crave freedom from the bounds of motherhood and actions that demonstrated a deep dislike of being a mother. Regret even. I saw that, observed it, lived it. I vowed to never ever to be in that position. To never put myself in a position of having a child that I could possibly regret and to never put an innocent child through that experience.

My mom was young when she had kids. She had four children within 5 years, all before the age of 30. She pretty much spent 80 consecutive weeks being pregnant (my older brother and I are ten months apart). You could almost say it was120 weeks of pregnancy since she had maybe a couple months break between my birth and her next.  She must have figured out how to get birth control to work for a short period of time after that, but it wasn't long before dad knocked her up again. So she was a pretty stressed out mama.  Being way too young with too much responsibility, and broke, (and possibly suffering from post-partum depression, which probably didn't exist as a term in the 70's), it was pretty difficult being her kid.

I received a lot of negative messages about motherhood in those formative years. My mom is incredibly smart but was told by others that she "wasted her life" by having kids. She would have had a great career at anything she wanted to do, if she had not gotten pregnant.  She was bright and beautiful. But when she was stressed out, which was nearly all of the time, she was angry, resentful....violent. She just couldn't enjoy those years. I think she was trying to survive it, one day at a time, instead of being present and enjoying all the fun moments that motherhood brings.

I don't blame her for feeling so overwhelmed. She was doing the best she could with the knowledge she had. It was the best she could do at that time. As an adult and knowing now what she was going through in her personal life in those years, I can't believe she was able to do so much. I respect and love her even more for all the sacrifices she made to raise a family of good-hearted children.

But I swore not to have children because I didn't want to have that life.  My lesson was that children are equal to being held back in life and being less than what you can be. It was a second rate job. So I decided pretty early on that I would always be the kind of woman who lived by her own rules and could rise up the ladder just as well as any man.

And this plan pretty much worked for me until around the age when hormones started to overtake my brain causing thoughts such as, "let's go, get on with it, time to have kids. Hurry up!"  It made me analyze all over again all the previous thoughts, misperceptions and decisions.  Was it worth it? Did I make the right choice? Maybe being a mom doesn't have to be so bad? Maybe if you have just one kid instead of 3 or 4, you don't hate your kids. Maybe you don't have to give up having a "real" life to slaving at home with laundry and cooking?

Damn hormones screwing everything up.

Now I am almost passed the age where having children is an option. So the window of opportunity is coming to an end. And as I have no desire to be raising a child and be the age of the other kids grandparents, I'll let the window gently settle down into its ledge and say goodbye.

I have no regrets.

Not all of us can be moms. Certainly not all of us should be. I don't know if I would have done it any better. I think pretty much there would have been no way to do it worse.  But there was always a lingering fear in my mind that I wouldn't be any better. A worry that I would continue the cycle to the next generation. I couldn't bear the possibility.

Children are a blessing and a gift. They are gold. They need to be treasured. They need to be top priority. Why have a child and then treat them like old clothing you want to drop off at Goodwill?

I do a lot of people watching so I always take time to observe kids just being kids, interacting with their parents, how they behave at the airport or restaurants. When I see a child having a meltdown in a mall, I try to think about how they are feeling- the frustration. And I watch how the mom and/or dad deals with their small child screaming at the top of their lungs in public. I think about how I would handle such a situation and I don't know. I think I am glad that I don't have to deal with it.

When I see and hear a parent being too harsh to their child, it breaks my heart everytime. Most times it is words delivered with too much force. Sometimes it is handling them a little too rough. Sometimes it is a parent that just wants to escape and ignore them. I see that too. The parent just wants to be left alone.

I don't judge at all because I know that the parent is stressed out. They are doing the best they can in that moment. I know they don't realize how impactful their words are on that little mind, how absorbent children are to painful words and actions.  How lasting it will be. Oh sure, the child will forget- this time. Maybe the next time. But at some point it starts to change their self-perception and feelings of self-worth. They get the message that they are a burden and that love is based on conditions. I'll love you as long as you do as I say, behave, be quiet, stop crying, etc.

No parent can escape having a few episodes of this kind, I am sure. No one is perfect. And many people think that parents are too soft or too easy on kids today.

But I am glad I won't ever have to be in that position. I'll never have to punish, spank, yell at, or threaten a child. This is a big relief to me. I don't envy the job of parents.

I think all of you Sci-parents are very brave. Raising kids must be the most difficult job there is. It seems like it should be easy to love your child all of the time. But apparently, it is not. It is a huge responsibility and I commend you for taking it on, and finding a way to continue with a rewarding career while raising a well adjusted child. I wish I had your courage.

So here is a question for all you out there, moms and dads, singles, divorced, and marrieds. What effect did your relationship with your parents influence your opinions on parenthood and also on working? Do you want to be parents because of them? In spite of them? What is it like to want to be a parent? I guess that is emotion I am missing- I don't even know what that feels like.

It's a big question to ponder and worthy of more than a blog comment. So I challenge you to write your own blog post about it, if you dare reveal a little bit of yourself with your readers. I'd be interested in reading your #sciparent story if you feel like sharing.

Maybe some time later I'll tell you more about my dad, who was really the person I model my life after and who nourished the scientist in me. He taught me the meaning of love and compassion. And mom gave me lots of opportunity for practice.

Thank you for reading.

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7synapses

Guest Comment

You asked me on Twitter to elaborate on this comment:

Wanted to have kids in spite of my parents

And what I have to say is way too long for 140 characters.

My parents were the two smartest (and I would think, handsomest) people in the small town where they lived. In that sense they were a natural couple, but temperamentally, emotionally, and in all other respects, they didn't belong together at all. They lasted 16 years, which was probably about 10 years too long. As a 13 year old, I was relieved, not upset, when they split.

Later in life, I did some genealogy and discovered that both sides of my family were marked by singularly dysfunctional environments. There wasn't much to be proud of in my family, and there were no particularly successful people there.

I was 24 when I met my wife. She worked in the lab down the hall, me doing neurochemistry, she doing biochemistry. She taught me all I now know about biochemistry and molecular biology, and I fell in love with her mind and her beauty so completely that I honestly can't separate the two.

Of course I wanted to have kids, but she was 41 and it wasn't going to happen. So we didn't. I wasn't too sad, because of my family history and because of her extreme disinterest in children.

I have enjoyed other peoples' children but I know our lives would've been completely different if we had children of our own, so like Edith Piaf, je ne regrette rien.

 


Genomic Repairman
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My parents love me, but I was in effect a dream killer to my dad's pursuit of further education and career development.  So I can see both sides of the coin.  That's why I'm trying to completely finish with school/training before inoculating Mrs. Genomic Repairman with ionized, adenoviral-infected, endotoxin free genetic material.


yannisguerra
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mmm. It seems that your experience with your mother has clearly colored your perception about parenthood, Jade. I am very sorry about that.

I think that the fact that you wrote this post shows that you have thought about this, and you are baring your feelings to us.

So I will return the favor. Nothing personal, as I don't know you. But also everything personal, because I do have children. And I love them so hard it hurts.

Here I go.

The thing is...you DON'T  have to be perfect. You WILL want to throw your kids through the window. Sometimes.

Because, well, they are little selfish monsters. Sometimes.

And because you (and I) are big selfish monsters. Sometimes.

But most of the times, they and you will be...humans. Resilient and weak, sentimental and rational, stupid and genial. In a world...Complex.

The excuse of being afraid that you will affect their lives because you do x or y and that will affect them for the rest of their lives is exactly that. An excuse. And a very self important one.

If you extended that reasoning, you would have to live your life in a cocoon, because you would be to scared to offend someone, or butt-in someones way. You could affect their whole life!

But in real life you do that. You are not perfect. You cut in line in the supermarket. You honk in a hospital zone. You vote without having read about the candidate. You are petty to your coworkers. You curse the delivery guy because your pizza is cold. You ignore the guy asking for money in the corner of the street. And society goes by.

Your kids will do (mostly) fine, because even if you are their parent, in this day and age, you are NOT their whole world. They will interact with other members of your family, with the daycare teacher and the other kids there. With the weird cartoons on TV. And if they don't do fine, most probably you were not the total cause for that.

Can you be a complete monster and scar your kids for life? Of course you can. But most probably you won't. You will just be a fallible, out of style, mumbling and bumbling parent, that will never reach the idealistic goals that you thought you were going to attain before you had your kids. But also you will never be the terrible monster that your worse nightmares seemed to imply you were. Because yes, you are a special unique snowflake. But you are most probably very similar to all of us. Human. And not really that important in the grand scheme of things.

Most of the times, when people that don't have a biological reason not to have kids tell me that they don't want kids, I realize that the issue is NOT with the (theoretical) kids. The problem is with the people themselves. With either their self image or the image that they have about the world. They want to be perfect. Or to have a perfect world. And they are scared as hell that having a kid is going to screw that up. So they make all these nice rationalizing argument not to have kids. And you know what? All their arguments are completely and absolutely right.

There is no rational reason to have kids anymore, unless you live in an agricultural society. Children take your resources and time, they don't give back any income to the family, they don't let you pursue your dreams, etc. Let somebody else have kids.

But you know what?

There is no rational reason to be a scientist. It is much easier to have a bunch of other professions with better return on investment for your time. Let somebody else be a scientist.

There is no rational reason to start an artistic carreer. Statistically speaking, the chances of being successfull are very low. Let somebody else be an artist.

There is no rational reason to be, as an individual, altruistic. Statistically speaking, as long as there are other around you that are altruistic, you can be as selfish as you want, and you will do better than them. Let somebody else be altruistic.

But we do all these completely irrational things, because we are irrational. Thankfully. Because human rationality is bounded, and there is no way we can predict all the good/bad things that will develop from our decisions. So we just jump. And when we don't jump...well we give ourselves excuses (the water was TOO cold today!, I'll ask that girl out another day, Kids are really expensive, etc). I am not condoning making completely illogical decisions, but there are some decisions that you can't be completely rational about them, because you don't have the information to do so. So most of the time the statistically/heuristically answer is the correct one. Obviously an artist always will say it better than me so I would recommend you (maybe you have heard it already) to listen to Jonathan Coulton. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-8hrKb8SAQ . Much better than anything I could say.

 

"I don't judge at all because I know that the parent is stressed out. They are doing the best they can in that moment. I know they don't realize how impactful their words are on that little mind, how absorbent children are to painful words and actions.  How lasting it will be. Oh sure, the child will forget- this time. Maybe the next time. But at some point it starts to change their self-perception and feelings of self-worth. They get the message that they are a burden and that love is based on conditions. I'll love you as long as you do as I say, behave, be quiet, stop crying, etc.

No parent can escape having a few episodes of this kind, I am sure. No one is perfect. And many people think that parents are too soft or too easy on kids today."

Therefore everybody in the world is a screwup and we all are the worse possible human beings they can be. You don't judge the parents? Of course you do. Read your own words. And one of the problems is that YOU don't want to be judged. Because you will do all those things. Like all of us.

"How lasting it will be" you said. Yes, as you know perfectly well, the world is not made of fluffy colored pillows and rainbows. We get hit, but still we persevere. We are great, and terrible.  We are Shakespeare and Gandhi. We are Watson and Crick.  We are Hitler and Stalin. We are sons and parents. We hurt each other, but we also give strength to each other.

"But I am glad I won't ever have to be in that position. I'll never have to punish, spank, yell at, or threaten a child. This is a big relief to me. I don't envy the job of parents". I have no way to know what is in you head. But just by reading this it gives me the feeling that your relief is that you don't have to put yourself in the risk of being flawed. Not that you are afraid of doing those things, but that you are afraid of what YOU will think of yourself when you do them. You prefer not to confront that side of you, so you can be perfect in that aspect. So you don't have to be like your mother.

But that is also part of growing as a human being. Like it or not. Of course you can learn most of these things by other situations in life. But being a parent makes you realize WHO you are more than anything else in life, or at least it did that to me. Because you can't hide your warts. Because the other side(your kids) has no social skills to avoid telling you that, well...the emperor has no clothes. And there you stand naked. In front of yourself. Without a way to escape from the evidence of your imperfection. You won't have the "relief" of avoiding the realization that you are a horribly and terribly flawed human. Just like everybody else. Oh, yes, you can see your defects in other aspects of life. But only with kids you have to pay the consequences of them, and learn to live with them.

When I finished reading your post, I had the feeling that this sentence "What is it like to want to be a parent? I guess that is emotion I am missing- I don't even know what that feels like." is complete BS. Obviously I have my biased glasses on. But the emotion that I felt you transmitted in this post is not ignorance. The emotion is longing.

 

For the road not taken.

 

Thanks for writing this post.

Sorry.

 

 


Lesley Fellows
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Fantastic post - I'll take up your challenge and blog about it!


Dr. Girlfriend
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Thanks for writing this! I started a reply but am now writing my own blog on the subject.


David Manly
Freelance Science Journalist
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Jade, thank you for this. It was obviously very personal for you, and it must have been hard to write.

Don't take any gruff, it is you opinion and your choice - do not let anyone tell you any different. I am proud to call you a friend :)


Brian Krueger, PhD
Columbia University Medical Center
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Wow, Jade, thanks for writing something so personal about the scientific life.  I'm pretty sure that we're going to have kids some day, but for now we're still trying to get settled and figure out our careers.  Things are really busy as it is and we love being able to crash on the weekends without having further stress in our lives.  I keep hearing that it doesn't get any easier, but hopefully someday we can find time to fit in kids without resenting the decision.


Suzy
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@7Synpases: Thank you for sharing. I think it is really interesting to hear from a male perspective on the subject of becoming a parent.

@GR: Thanks for the comic relief!

@Yannis: Thank you for the long thought out comment! I feel like I got some free therapy. You gave me a lot to think about. Just a few comments:

"If you extended that reasoning, you would have to live your life in a cocoon, because you would be to scared to offend someone, or butt-in someones way. You could affect their whole life!"

I did live this way for a very long time. It has been very difficult to learn how to stand up for myself and take care of my self. I still put myself last most of the time. I had another post about it but it is also very personal so held I back (at the moment). I have no problem standing up for other people, however.

Your examples- pizza delivery guy, etc.- don't apply. Because I am talking about a child. A little person who depends on you to be their everything. Who looks up to you. And who is defenseless. So all those other people can deal with real life stuff. A child cannot. They only have you. From ages 0-5, you really don't have anyone else yet to lean on or model. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The couple hours spent in school are nothing compared to time spent at home.

"You don't judge the parents? Of course you do."

Not really. I have compassion for the parent going through it. I am rooting for them to hold it together.  I realize the child needs some disciplining at this point and it will be well deserved.

"You prefer not to confront that side of you, so you can be perfect in that aspect" "You won't have the "relief" of avoiding the realization that you are a horribly and terribly flawed human"

No. I know I am flawed. Even without kids, I don't get to escape the realization of being a terribly flawed person. I am a perfectionist, however.  The seesaw (perfect / flawed) is difficult to balance.

 

@Lesley- awesome- I am really looking forward to it.

 


Suzy
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@Dr. G: Cool, a full post would be great.

@Thanks David: I think about this subject a lot....especially since every month now is another lost opportunity. So it kinda feels like the countdown has begun and it's a weird feeling. I think all I can do is learn from the experiences and try to make better choices- choices not based on fear.

@Brian: I am sure you will not have any resentment towards the decision. I am sure it will be right when the time is right. I think that it is much easier to raise a child today. And you have a strong relationship. I chose relationships as well that would sabotage having a child. I think to make sure I couldn't change my mind on that decision.


Gerty-Z
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Jade, thanks for this post, which is just super. I wish that everyone who had children had thought about it as much as you clearly have. This is a really personal decision, and there is no way that your past experiences don't color how you approach this decision. There is no correct answer, and I think that it is completely reasonable for women (and men) to decide they don't want kids. I can think of just as many pathological reasons to have kids than to not have kids. And I have never understood people that want to pressure others to have children. In the end, it sounds like you have made the decision that is best for you. I think that is great.

I like your idea of making my own post about this. I will have to think about what I would write a little more, but it could be interesting. Thanks again.


27 and a PhD
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Awesome post Jade, as always. Very personal, and very, very eye opening. I'm 29. My mom had me at 32, and my sister at 35. By all accounts she was an old woman when she had us. She didn't know about the increased risk in trisomy 21 after age 32 (the only thing I remember from genetics 101). That is something that worries me. More than being a mom, it is delivering a child and caring for one that has some sort of physical, mental or other special need. I am not very patient, and I'm very volatile, so I know I couldn't possibly take proper care of a child with special needs. Which is why, if I was thinking of getting preggers (and had the resources as I am about to be jobless, and homeless if I don't secure a position by mid-June) I'd take every possible test to ensure that my eggs and possibly my future child would be "ok." I was raised Catholic, and my family has very strong feeling about abortion. Same with hon. But as I get older I see that things aren't black and white. I'm not advocating for or against abortion. I'm just saying that as I get older, I certainly appreciate or can put myself in the position of people who choose to a)not have babies, b) get all sorts of genetic tests done, c) terminate a pregancy. I know it sounds selfish, and I'm not sure I'd choose it if I was ever faced with that decision ... but it would certainly be in my head.

My mom went to school, travelled and enjoy life before settling down. My dad is not the easiest person to be around, and in a way, I think they're still together due to the big, big, big Catholic ideals and values that my mom has (my dad says he's an atheist and hasn't stepped in a church for a while). But they were not together, and growing up it wasn't always easy, or peaches and cream. It was tough. Not that I will ever tell them that. But my mom has a very adventurous side, and she told me a few years ago that even though she loves my sis and I will all her heart, knowing what she knows now, she'd probably choose to stay celibate and travel  around the world and enjoy knowing other cultures, volunteering and livign life alone. It didn't shock me, because that's the spirit that my mom has. Growing up she never did anything to show those feelings, but now that my sis and I are adults, almost 30 and out of the house she can speak her mind more freely and try to embrace some of her dreams, even though she'll never be able to finance them (apparently being very broke is a staple of being in my family).

And like you said, some people shouldn't be parents, but then again, there's no way to introduce a "parent aptitude test." I sometimes see little boys and girls and think it would be good to be a mom, that's how I was raised to think and be. But most of the time I see the places I've able to visit, the people I've gotten to know,  the things I've done when I had the resources, and I think about how I'd be tied down if I had a child ... and I thank God I don't have a baby or kid to take care of. And I feel selfish, but I also feel relief .... I don't know what to think, other than thinking that I must be a horrible person for thinking that way ... but, again, I don't have to worry about staying late in the lab and making time for PTA or soccer, or vaccines or food allergies and snotty noses.


GMP
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Nice post, Jade!

I have a lot of thoughts about the topic, and may follow up with a post.

I always assumed I'd have kids 'cause that's something you do, although I never felt particularly drawn to them. I got knocked up when I started grad school -- that was not planned. But I love my oldest son and we all survived grad school (financially, just barely). I was very resentful at times and enjoyed him greatly at times. He's 11 now and he's a great kid. He knows he's loved, he is smart and well-adjusted. My hub and I did what we could when he was little; I am sure it was not perfect, we were pretty broke, but I don't think we've runined him.

I think it's unfair to expect any parent-child relationship to be pure bliss all the time. You do not have to be someone you are not to your kids; kids need to understand that parents have needs and wants too and that sometimes yes they have to leave mommy alone. I think that teaches them to be considerate of others.

Overall, my hub and I loved having our first son and we went on to have two more (one will be 4 in May, a third one will be born in June). It's soooo much easier the second time around, but we did space them quite far apart. In my youth, I was scared of kids; now that I have had mine, I find that not only do I adore mine, but I really like other people's kids too.

I have the career I wanted -- I am a tenured prof at a big public R1. I also have a family I adore. If you had asked me how I would have ideally planned my career, I would not have gotten knocked up at the start of grad school, I would not have left my Fancy Grad School to be with my then boyfriend at his so-so school and I would not have changed fields of study at that time (this was an excellent move), and maybe, just maybe, as a result of it all I would be a prof at a Fancy Private U. But, I might have not and in hindsight I am very happy that I do have my family and that everything happened the way it did. I know plenty of people who sacrificed a lot in their private lives for the career, and their career did not end up being stratospheric anyway.

As people say "Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans."

What enabled me to not drop the career is the support of my husband and the fact that we didn't have all our kids at 1-2 year intervals. Lots (LOTS!) of people give me grief that they are so far apart in age, but those jerks usually have a stay-at-home wife or can afford an army of nannies. For us, it's just my hub and me, both working full time, and we spaced the kids far apart so each one of us can potentially stay alone with them for a week or so, when the other one travels, without going completely insane.

OK, this got very long. Kids are not as fragile as people think, and no one should expect parenthood to be complete bliss all the time. Kids need to see parents as humans and not infallible robots hell bent on fulfilling the kids' every wish.

Btw, I had kids in spite of my parents. They were good parents but there was never any love between them and there was always a lot of tension in the house.  I think that charade they upheld for way too long (they divorced when I was 20, thank god!) had a more damaging effect on my sister and me than anything else.

 

 

 


becca
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On the one hand, I just ran into this quote...

"Nothing has a stronger influence psychologically on their environment and especially on their children than the unlived life of the parent. " Carl Jung

It rings pretty true to me. Ultimately, I might be a scientist because of the unlived life of my father as much as any other reason.

 

On the other hand, some while ago Michelle Obama was on Oprah or something, and my mom saw it. She said that, when asked "what about becoming a parent most surprised you?" Obama's answer was "How much I love my kids". That is, Obama was very much career oriented, and she was expecting many of those priorities to stay the same... and they just didn't. You just don't feel the same about everything, post-child(ren). For both better and worse, I'd say.

My relationship with my own parents very much impacted my decision to become a #scimom. My mother was 39 when she had me, and when I found myself pregnant long before I would have planned it in, that mattered a lot. For two reasons: 1) I wanted to be young enough to do active things like kayaking with my child and 2) I wanted my child to know hir (amazing, wonderful) grandparents, as I never knew my grandparents.

Some days I'm thrilled I made the choice I did. Most days I'm at peace with it, but not exactly over the moon. Sometimes (particularly with postpartum depression), things got pretty dark.


GingerNinja
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I, too, decided not to have children early on; my ex husband and I both decided on this. Then I got pregnant while we were married and I suffered a horrific miscarriage--the entire situation is not something I will probably ever write about. Too much emotion there, that I intend to keep shelved for a while yet.

Following my divorce, I decided it just wasn't going to happen. I have different reasons for that now, which are very personal and specific, and no one will convince me otherwise, so don't try. I'm also not asking for sympathy--it just is what it is.

I'm telling this story because I want to end this stigma: "If you don't want children there is something wrong with you". It's a personal choice. I work with children, and change a lot of lives for the better. That's fulfillment enough for me.

So, Jade, I stand by you. I see your reasons. I understand absolutely everything about your post, even the parts that were hinted at but not expanded on. I get it. I feel that way, too, at times. To look at it the way you are, with open, honest eyes, is far healthier psychologically than pushing all that aside and giving in to the peer pressure of women who feel there is something wrong with you if you aren't pining to squeeze your DNA out of your uterus. (Yeah, I went there)

I could say more, but I'm very busy today.

I empathize with you regarding your childhood, too. I could tell you stories...

Anyway, props to you for writing this. I understand your position.You have my support.

Sidebar: If anyone tries to "convince me" that I should really have kids because it is my womanly biological and evolutionary drive that I am denying myself, and I 'just don't know what I'm saying" or "I'm trying to avoid confronting my inner fears" or any other BS--prepare to be bitchslapped. Don't even go there.


GingerNinja
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Also-- you can take on the role of "parent" without actually giving birth to offspring. I have very close relationships with people who are not my parents, yet it has that very dynamic. Family is what you get through bonding, not genetics. So when I look at it that way, and take into account the profound impact I have on specific children and their development through the work I do... I don't feel like I'm missing out on having that mentoring, nurturing role one bit. It's just in a different form. And that's ok.

The world needs all kinds of adult role models for kids. Not all of those are parents.

Elizabeth

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Thank you, Jade, for sharing your story, for sharing your thoughts.

I am 36 yrs old, and I have to say I'm 50/50 on the idea of having children.  Most probably I won't.  I believe that having a child is about the child.  In other words, do I want to give love to a child?  Do I want to give a soul the opportunity to come into this planet and live a life time?  mmhhhhh it takes 18 years, more or less, to help a human to become independent.  I ask myself am I equipped with love and money? seriously, there is a lot of expenditure.   But it goes hand-in-hand with the TIME you will give. And with that, the TIME aspect, I realised I may not have children. There is a passion in me that I want to fulfill and it takes a lot of my time which I don't want to take from my child caring.

I applaud you for thinking this big decision over, for looking at your history, your self, your emotions, this holistic truth gives a result.  We all have different results.  My childhood was similar to yours, and I am determined to NOT continue the cycle, it will stop with me.  In this sense if I have a child I must start with a change in myself, to see first that I am in peace with my past, and that I look at my past from a place of love and understanding.    Once I'm in that place I look at my financials... its probably my financials that stop me too, lol!

You know, I belive that discipline does not go hand-in-hand with spanking, yelling and threatening.  Discipline for me is giving structure to the child, boundaries.  Letting them know how far they can go, and to let them be free within those boundaries.  The structure will give them the tools, and the boundaries will give them freedom.

Gosh what a great subject, would be lovely to discuss this with others.

Thank you, I've never written this down, this will help me have the explanation ready for others when I'm asked: "You don't have children?? but why!!?" and "you are NOT married??.. but why!!?"... Its worst when you go to South America.. very catholic there Laughing

Elizabeth.


Dr. O
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Very nice post, Jade! Thanks for writing.

I always knew I wanted kids. I never saw kids as a burden, cuz my parents never treated us as such. Even when we seemed to interrupt their own plans, they seemed to be so thankful for us that it didn't matter. In fact, I never saw kids as counter to a career - until I decided I wanted a high-powered (hah!) research position. And I put off the idea of academia for a while because I was so positive that I would eventually have kids.

It is interesting to think how my plans were reflected in my parents behavior. I think I will write a post on this, although I'm sure a lot of my thoughts on the subject are scattered among several pre-existing posts. I'll have to think about this one some, maybe over the weekend, and see if I can put something together.

 


JaniceF
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Good post.  And I like a challenge. So I'll post something of my own after digesting everything that's been said.


Suzy
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Thanks Gerty. Sometimes I feel like I've analyzed it to death- justifying it. I've also thought about what if I were in a relationship with a woman who wanted a baby. Would that be different? And the answer is, yes. That would have been fine.  I don't know why that is different, but it is.

27andPhD: Thanks for sharing about your mom. The possibility of having a special needs child is one of the reasons my guy doesn't want to have children. I don't think I would get an abortion. I just couldn't.

GMP- please do follow up with a post. I am most curious to hear how other people's parents influenced their decisions. Your words were very comforting to me.

I will tell you that being so close in age to my siblings I think was bad for our relationship with each other. There was a lot of jealousy. But also being in an environment with a lot of conflict and stress does trickle down. So the age gap probably helps yo tour kids to be more independent, have their own friends, their own clothes, etc.

"Kids are not as fragile as people think, and no one should expect parenthood to be complete bliss all the time. Kids need to see parents as humans and not infallible robots hell bent on fulfilling the kids' every wish."

Thank you- good point. It took a very long time and many miles of distance before I could understand (see my mother as human). I agree that kids are resilient and some are wise beyond their years. I think I was probably more sensitive than the average kid but that same sensitivity is what allows me to be compassionate now.

My parents got along very well with each other. There was no strife in that area. So perhaps the interaction of parents with each other is less influential than the interaction with our parents with ourselves? Or is it?

 


Suzy
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Thank you Becca for your comment. It is interesting to hear from someone with an older mom. My mom and dad had one more kid- when my mom was 41 (dad was 53). I know that this sister's experience with them as parents is so drastically different than ours. I fell in love with this little person. She was born on my 16th birthday, coincidentally. I didn't have a lot of time with her since I left pretty soon for college. I often felt like she was the child I would never have.

Thank you Andrea- fortunately, I was never pressured to have children. My brother has 5 and he satisfied the expectations for a next generation. My family put a lot of pressure on me to get married (not my parents, actually, but everyone else) and so I went ahead with it. It only lasted 2 years. After that, my family learned not to push me to do because I very well may do it!

I agree that it is possible to have an impact on kids development and help inspire them. But I don't work with kids so I don't have as much interaction as you do. And it's a bit easier to be "cool Aunt Jade" when you don't have to do any disciplining and can buy a lot of expensive gifts :-).

 

 


Suzy
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Hi Elizabeth,

Thanks for your comments. I agree with this:

"My childhood was similar to yours, and I am determined to NOT continue the cycle, it will stop with me.  In this sense if I have a child I must start with a change in myself, to see first that I am in peace with my past, and that I look at my past from a place of love and understanding."

I also feel a responsibility to end the cycle of abuse. Peace was a long time coming. I think I have it now but I still don't want to take the chance. Like GMP says above, kids are not fragile and need to see their parents as human. Alternatively, I think I would end up being one of those parents that is so easy-going and doesn't say no and then the kid would end up so spoiled and a total brat. I think my aversion to punishment could be so strong that I could screw up that way too.

"You know, I believe that discipline does not go hand-in-hand with spanking, yelling and threatening.  Discipline for me is giving structure to the child, boundaries.  Letting them know how far they can go, and to let them be free within those boundaries.  The structure will give them the tools, and the boundaries will give them freedom."

I agree, but I think there will always be times when there has to be some harshness, no? Like if your kid is disrepectful to someone, or steals a piece of candy at the store. I don't know- I think it's impossible to know how to handle these situations right. Discipline is definitely a whole subject worth discussion.


Suzy
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Dr. O: Would be lovely for you to post about it. It sounds like you had very good role models for parenthood. It would be great to have that perspective.

CGP: Great- I know, you mentioned your mom before in a post of mine about my friend who died. I would like to hear your thoughts on what impact your mom or dad had on your current decision to be a parent.

Namnezia

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I don't know, having kids did basically take over our lives, but once you accept that, at least for me, I didn't mind. You just have to have no expectations. I've been in the fortunate position of being able to be having a somewhat successful career and be raising children without too much stress. Of course this is due mostly to my wife's decision to have a career change so she could work part-time and be able to take care of the kids. And I'm thankful for that decision. That being said, after getting sick (and even before) I realized that between the two things my family is far, far more important. Although I think I can be a decent scientist, I'm not going to revolutionize my field or solve any of the world's problems doing science. I enjoy what I do a lot, but will I be remembered as a scientist many, many years from now? Probably not. For me, I think that what I teach my kids and ensuring that they turn out to be decent people will be more of a legacy and that will make the world a little better (assuming they turn out alright) than any papers in fancy-ass journals. To me it was important to figure out what it means to have a "successful career". In my view, if you get to do what you love without going insane, then you are having a successful career, even if others might not view it as such. And it's not easy, you do have to work hard to stay in the game (eg. getting a job, funding, tenure, etc.), but once your expectation are adjusted, it is possible to have a career and a family.


Suzy
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I think about this a lot too Namnezia. About what is really important in life and what all the effort was for. I'm not really sure anymore. What is life about? Is life about kids?

Is it about accomplishments? About making it to retirement and maybe finally doing what you want?

I work so hard at so many things that seem important to some people. I get stressed out over things that seem like the world might end if I don't fix the problem. But it's insignificant in the grand scheme of things. It really never mattered.  More pondering....

Too many questions for a Friday night.

Ragamuffin

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Many thanks for this personal insight, Jade.  I have a similar perspective on sciparenting very heavily influenced by my mother, a truly stunning jazz musician who gave up her career for my siblings and I and always seemed that she regretted it just enough to imbue a bit of guilt into us.  Right now, I don't think I want kids -- don't think I have what it takes in that department in terms of the devotion I'd want to give to both career and youngins.  On the other hand, I'm just entering grad school and my self-evaluation is lacking in examples.  There are a few other factors of my person that weigh in of course, and this merits an expansion in my own blog.  Best.

darc

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One of the reason people give for having kids that absolutely annoys/enrages me: at the end you'll have this (nearly) perfect person who loves you with all their heart, and (therefore) will do anything for you,

 

This people just cannot accept that sometimes you don't get that - you get a child with mental/physical handicaps or you get the drug addict, the thief, the asshole, or just someone who just doesn't love you or give a damn about you once they turn 18.

 

Seriously, it's as if no one want to admit you may have a kid who's not perfect and it's not the parents faults.


yannisguerra
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Great comments to a great post!

I am glad that my comment made you think, as your post made also made me think a lot.

Funnily, after reading your post, I was wandering in one webcomic called Saturday Morning Breakfast cereal, and I found this one http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2087#comic

As always, an artist beats me to the punch(line)!

 


Lesley Fellows
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Hi Jade Here is my attempt at answering your questions, a blog post entitled On being a mum. Sorry about the English english spelling of 'mom'!


Alchemystress
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Jade, I have to say I am so glad you wrote this. I am myself soon coming upon this decision myself due to age and such. It’s something I have to consider as I date men who perhaps want families and can I do it? My life hardly affords time for my snakes and they are umm rather low maintenance creatures. I have a very similar view on child rearing as you do but like you said the hormones as of late have been intoxicating my mind. People don't get that I really am right on the fence with children. If I meet the right man and we are at a sort of appropriate place in life (i get it if you wait for perfect timing it’s never going to happen but I would like life to be somewhat stable) Then I will do it but if that time passes then its ok. Recently I have had more reason to think about it and that may or may not be something I write about we shall see. But I am so happy you wrote this and put out there another obstacle type that women in high powered careers face. And its ok to be female and nor procreate or be female with a career and procreate. People make it work and that is amazing. My mum gave up her career for us kids and she seems happy but sometimes unfulfilled and I don't want to be there either. -sigh- its a rough road and a tough decision but ne pas regretter d'avoir fait. It’s a fine line and definitely deserves much thought. Thank you so much for sharing!

 

Ipad41001

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So, let me first admit that as I meant to comment earlier but the iPad was taken by one of the children.  It may sound like they are spoiled but they have done all their work and when they do they are allowed to have their fun put first.  The lesson is do your work so you can play.  Not play for play's sake.  Not work for work's sake.There's been many other excellent comments but I'll mention one thing that's been said elsewhere by other before.  Children always listen to you.  Even when they choose to ignore you.  They listen even when they shouldn't.  A statement of regret to their existence will always be remembered as their is no solution to make it any different.I too heard my parents repeat regret and remembered it.  I equated children with work and has a preference no not have them.  But a relationship is not a dictatorship so there has been two.  There has not been three since the work on the first two would have been compromised at my level of ability anyway.Some would say children are not work.  I would counter with children are not a hobby nor pets.  You can also enjoy work which does not decrease the duty of it.  Can the work of a career be balanced with the work of a parent? Yes, as long as you remember you can always get another job.  So, yes, a career with children will mute the career somewhat.  On the reverse young children easily understand the tradeoff between an expensive request and time with their parents.I think the author would have made an excellent parent as they understand the seriousness of the choice.  My preference was exactly the same but going down the other path with that attitude improved performance.  My children be able to make their own choices with the same seriousness but without the parental whining to get there.The bright spot to the story is that my parents did much better tan their and my grandparents did better that their parents.  It's part of an evolution out of old ideas.  Generations are slow, how many generations since women could vote even?  Not many at all.
Rob Knop

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I don't think I ever wanted to have kids, but I also don't think I knew that.  Like GMP above, I think I always assumed I would, because that's just what you do.  But, when I was in high school and college, I used to think that I wanted to make sure I had kids by 25, so that I'd still be young enough to "enjoy life" by the time they were out of the house.  If that's how you're thinking about kids, then you might want to question whether you really ought to have them or not....

I got married at age 32.  If I had married a woman who wanted kids, I probably would have had them, although by then I think I'd figured out that I didn't want kids.  I was very hesitant to admit that out loud even to myself, because societal pressures are such that I felt there must be something wrong with me for not wanting kids.  However, the woman I married wasn't physically able either to bear or raise kids.  (Chronic illness meant fatigue issues and so forth.)  As such, kids were never even on the table, and I didn't feel regret, I only felt relief.  It did finally allow me to admit to myself that I never wanted kids, and that I dreaded the idea of having kids.

My childhood was great, my parents were great, and except for a couple of years when I was 13-14 and therefore my two-year-younger sister was worthless, my relationship with my sibling is great.  That's not what colored it.  I think it's just who I am, coupled with watching people try to deal with screamling little kids and trouble teenagers and wondering how they cope, coupled with watching lots of people who were screwed up by screwed-up childhoods.  To heck with the career, it wasn't a choice there.  As a man, I have to admit that society never expected me to have to make that a choice.  But, even if I were independently wealthy, didn't have aspirations, and didn't have to work, I don't think I would be *able* to raise kids.  Honestly, even with the good kids (like my sister and I were), I don't know how people manage.  It seems like a tremendous effort, sacrifice, and burden.


Suzy
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@Ragamuffin: Yes- I know exactly what you are saying about the guilt. If you do post on your blog, please let me know via twitter or here.

@darc: Yup- this is true. Growing up, I would observe my friends parents, I thought they were so lucky to have such amazing people as parents, but the kids were just so badly behaved. I won't share details, but everything you said above. I would think: I would sell my soul to trade places with you.

Oddly, it seemed, that sometimes the best, coolest parents had the most troubled kids with authority and socially.

@Lesley- beautiful article.

@Alchemystress: thanks- I hope you may feel compelled to share more in a post.

@Ipad: Thank you for your comments. Good feedback. Children are listening and soaking everything in. All the time.

@Rob: I really appreciate your comments. I totally agree- I don't know how people manage. I have a hard time managing now and I can't imagine having kids too. Except that obviously, I wouldn't work so much so that is how. I also feel bad for parents dealing with difficult teenagers and misbehaving kids. As I mentioned above, I've seen the best parents in the world have uncontrollable kids. I don't think it was their parenting skills.

There are many times when I feel men have a much easier life. That is another post I may or may not put up in the future.

Mike Lisieski

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Why do people who don't want kids need to justify why they don't want kids?  People who don't want to be scientists don't have to justify not being scientists.


Suzy
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Hi Mike,

Good point. I hope I didn't come across as justifying. I am just sharing another perspective. No one asked me to or why - it was my choice to open a discussion on the subject.

We talk a lot about how women can do more to influence young ladies and kids in general to explore science and consider a science career. We talk about the challenges of being a parent and having a demanding career.

I think the very first, and most important influence in any young woman's life is her mother. Perhaps also for boys. A lot of the discussion around how young women choose a career and/or to be a mom will directly relate to the messages we received in childhood. So these were mine.

I think if you have a mom today who is doing both, and doing it well, then it sends a positive message to her children. If your mom could not do both, and then did the role she chose not very well either, well the message is don't take that path.

I think the discussion of why some of us have kids and do not, and how we were influenced as children is central to our goals in inspiring young woman today to be scientists. We need to understand better the signals girls are getting at home to know how to reverse negative messages and reinforce positive ones. Each girl (and boy) will be different.

Thanks for reading and thanks for commenting

Vera Pavel

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Hi,

I will add my story. I'm in my final year of grad school, and my husband and I just started trying to have a baby.

Until we were almost engaged I was completely sure I was never going to have kids. My mother had a really hard time raising my brother and me. Quite a bit of it was because of her introverted personality and her own issues and thinking she had to do everything perfectly on her own. Including having kids. I know, for example, that the decision to conceive me was based on my paternal grandmother "not getting any younger", not on my mother's own desires.

So, I could tell she was unhappy as a stay-at-home mom, and I knew that she didn't really know what to do. I was an awful child to deal with growing up. Not on purpose, but with both mental and physical chronic illness. And when I was tolerable, my brother was acting out. My mom was so overwhelmed she asked me (at age 12) how to handle my brother. Of course she didn't listen and I still think I was right, but who knows.

So knowing my mom was unhappy, knowing I was unhappy, knowing that I had illnesses that could hurt a chile, I swore never to have children. "I'll never do that to an innocent child" is what I said, driving the stake still farther into my mother's heart.

Then I met my husband. He is hands down the most wonderful thing that's happened to me. A perfect complement to my personality and emotional needs. (this sounds like hyperbole I know, but arguing over that is another issue) And after a year or so, I started thinking I wanted a little one of him. And he wanted a little one of me. So coupled with that I thought something wonderful (him) would be part of any child, and his adoration of me helping me realize my life isn't so bad, I completely switched gears. The hormones took over and after we were married it became: what can I do so that I'm as ready as possible, as healthy as possible to safely raise children.

I've probably done as much thought as Jade, and come to the opposite conclusion, eventually. A big surprise. I spend a lot of my down time going over possible scenarios in my head. (The birds and the bees talk, for example.) I know that things won't go as I expect, but that I will just deal with things as they come. It also helps that my husband's mother adores children and would have more if she could but her husband said 4 was enough. So I know that kids aren't always so awful as I thought growing up.

It is still scary, and I don't know how things will go. We used to be planning that my career would be the driver of the two-body problem, as I (used to) care a lot about my career and he would be perfectly happy staying home a lot. My thoughts on this are changing too, but I hope it's just burnout.

I fully support your and anybody else's decision not to have children (or is it lack of decision to have children). --this is getting long. Political portion continued in next comment.

Vera Pavel

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Ok, I had political stuff. One of my friends is absolutely sure she does not want children. She considers herself not emotionally suited to it. Totally fine. She also has some health problems with her reproductive system, apparently not life-threatening, but often painful.

So, she wanted to get a hysterectomy or an ovarectomy or something that would also make her unable to bear children. She was rejected for the surgery in part because she had not yet had children. I think this is totally ridiculous.

Yes, a person may regret this in the future, but there are many decisions one can make as a young person and regret in the future. Such as binge drinking and falling off a building. Having unprotected sex and getting AIDS. Dating a horrible person. Or not making decisions and regretting things. Like being in a car crash, or contracting meningitis. Or being raped.

Life is dangerous. Like the commenter said above about living in a cocoon. Sometimes you take risks, and "might regret it in the future" is just telling women what they can and can't do with their own bodies. What risks they can and can't take. Voluntary sterilization should be a no-brainer. There is no other being involved, a woman's body 100% under any physical definition belongs to the woman inhabiting it. No "spark of life" involved-not like abortion which one can comprehend the arguments of anti-choicer even while disagreeing.

Thank you for reading this rant

amy

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Oddly enough, that's exactly how I thought until I hit, oh, 32. And then one day I woke up and it was apparent to me that if the rest of my life was also about me and my own interests, it would be painfully boring and sterile, and that in some important sense I'd fail to grow up. Very much a timing thing. I'd had my turn; the next part of my life was to be primarily about bringing up someone else, work to do with teaching and loving, and responsibility, in the end, for someone else's life.

Fastforward ten years to single motherhood after a disastrous marriage and divorce and plenty of other harrowing along the way. I'm 42 now, with a 7-year-old. It turns out I was right: there's a crucial, and very large, part of life I'd have known nothing of had I not had a kid. I don't think it's accidental that for the first time, I'm interested in going back to teaching, something I'd had no interest in at 25. Maybe parenthood's more important for me, a writer, than it might be for a scientist -- after all, a writer who's ignorant of how people do and why runs into serious trouble. (But I sort of doubt it. I suspect it's important for scientists to know how people do, too.) And yes, there was a serious interruption in my writing. I find, though, that now that I'm back to it, I've never written better or been more productive. Yes, I live in fear that something horrible will happen to my child, and that not only will there be all the anguish but my life will be fulltime-plus caregiving forever, and no more writing. So far, though, all's well, and I have a view of my parents, grandparents, and death that I doubt I'd have had otherwise. Not to mention a radically shifted view of other adults' motives and the forces in their lives.

What's important here is that I happen to have a career that accommodates people's having lives. I can take a ten-year break and it's fine, even good. In lit, a success at 60 is as serious as a success at 20, possibly better (unless you want a job inside the academy). But science doesn't work that way, and the sexual-politics connect-the-dots explaining why is so easy a toddler could do it. So I would submit that -- if the tension's between baby and career -- the problem's not with social expectations but with your industry's setup.

Incidentally -- and maybe I just got the best one, I don't know -- I don't go through all that much frustration with my kid. My ex, yes. But the kid's a sweetie. She's also not here most of the time; she's in school, camp, daycare, Hebrew school, swim lessons, at playdates, birthday parties, etc. Taking care of her doesn't feel like an enormous hardship. And if things get terrible, there are those four magic words: "Go to your room." Yes, the first five years are hard. They can't read, they need their asses wiped, you've got to watch them all the time, love them all the time, teach them everything, find friends for them. Once that's done, though, there's a long reprieve till adolescence, and they're quite charming. And I must say I never expected to be using All in the Family and The Mary Tyler Moore Show as entree to Serious Conversation, but the kid does ask good questions. Table manners leave something to be desired.

Punishing, spanking, etc.: Meh. I don't do much punishing, and spanking was a one-time experiment. Ridiculous thing to do to another person. Again, you know, it's possible I got some fantastic outlier, or that some huge comeuppance is on the way, but I find paying attention and talking take care of most of it.

The shocker? You know all those teen moms who have a baby because they "want someone who'll love me"? It turns out when you have a kid, if you're decent & so's the kid, there's this other person who loves you. For real.

Other shocker: I take a lot less shit from people, almost always men, than I used to. I think, "Christ, my kid knows better than to treat me like that; why would I take it from you?" And then I don't. It surprises people. I think women are expected to just, you know, take shit. But the result's that I get taken advantage of much less often, unless of course you count the fact that motherhood itself is an absolutely shitty racket in terms of money and respect outside your own house. The whole "here, raise the next batch of people for free" thing chaps my ass pretty hard. It's work and should be compensated as such.

***

Of course, if you don't *want* to be a parent, that's the best reason possible not to do it. I'm always aghast at the number of people who do despite not wanting children. Works out for some, but for the rest and their children, it's not nice. Definitely don't do this if you don't actively want to, because it's hella expensive in time, money, cuteness, liberty (for a couple decades), and sleep. But if you want to, I can think of nothing finer. Though I feel compelled to mention the genetic roulette involved.

postdoc

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Wonderful post. My two cents:

I long ago decided that it was unethical for me to have kids. I first made this decision as a teenager suffering from severe clinical depression; I realized there was depression on one side of my family, and my condition might to a large degree be heritable. I thought it was negligent of my parents to have me under these conditions. (Obviously, they barely knew better at the time.) I've since thoroughly recovered from the depression and think I'd be pretty good at providing emotional support to any child with depressive tendencies.

What I now can't shake is the conviction that if I really want to make people happy, I'm better off not having my own children. I do believe there's an overpopulation problem. (It's obviously more accurately described as some awkwardness in the dynamics of humans and other biotic and abiotic factors, but you get the point. I'm in evolutionary biology and ecology, for what it's worth, so I think about these dynamics a lot.) I also believe there's tons of unnecessary suffering--people getting sick and dying from stupid, preventable causes all the time. American kids are resource-intensive. My scientific research relates directly to aspects of global human health. As long as I can get away with not having a kid, why shouldn't I devote my time and money to doing more good for everyone?

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why anyone thinks *not* having kids is inherently selfish. I worry very much that the human population isn't happy or stable because we spend so much time focused on our families instead of people we aren't close friends and relatives.

Then I met this guy who just assumed all along he'd have kids... maybe even three, like his parents did. This guy is now my boyfriend. I remember crying about the kid issue (in private) the second week we started dating, because of the conflict ahead.

A year later, I realized that I could do even more good on the planet by convincing a guy who would otherwise probably have n or n+1 kids to have n-1 kids instead. Win!

That said, I'm still really worried about the time tradeoffs. My parents were extremely devoted to my sister and me, but they were also often miserable because of how thin they spread themselves between their careers in law and their family. I'm in a very stressful postdoc stage (made all the more stressful by finances--I keep eyeing the gilded hole in the pipeline!) and feel years from having the time, money, and energy to be the exclusive caretaker of another human.

Thanks again for this post!

 


Suzy
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@Vera: Thank you for telling your story. I think it shows how easy it is to change your mind on a decision such as this when you have the right partner who has the stability that you feel you don't have.

@Amy: Thanks for posting- I enjoyed reading how your thoughts and goals changed post-motherhood. I have had those moments of "what do I do now?" and wondered how the next 40-50 years are going to be.  I'm not sure.

I'm glad you have a good kid and yes, it is ridiculous thing to do to a person. I think often times, when parents are using physical punishment in a reactive way, it usually does not fit the crime. It is an imbalance in the parents mind- almost like they are out of their mind. In other words, my siblings and I were exceptionally good kids- out of fear. The most trivial things could initiate an episode. So we were very careful.

I am sure there are instances where hitting is necessary, but, only when used sparingly.

@Postdoc: Good points. I also view the world as having an overabundance of suffering people and children. That does enter my mind- why add to it? But I don't feel like I do enough for others too. I don't think my current work has much impact in the grand scheme of things. Something for me to figure out.

I am grateful to all who shared their background- thank you.

Barefoot Doctoral

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This is an amazing post. It made me think about a lot of things relating to my decision process to have kids, some to personal to write down in a public setting. But I want to share a few thoughts about having families that have not been brought up yet, and echo a few that have.

First, I see a lot of comments about feeling a biological time pressure to have kids, and it seems that this pressure is due to falling fertility and biological risks to the fetus. There is another way to start a family at a later stage in life. Most states allow for people up to the age of 50 to adopt an infant. There are lots to pros and cons to this route. My partner and I were well into the process of adoption before I became pregnant, and I'd be happy to discuss the pros and cons of both processes (from my point of view) privately. I put this out there because I've found that decisions I make under time pressure are often not made for the right reasons, even if they are the right decisions in the end. That being said, I felt a biological pressure to have kids that came from adding 20 to my current age, and whether i wanted to deal with a teenager at that point in my life. Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to that one.

As for the decision to have kids? My partner grew up in a very supportive family, with extended family close by, and his parents had roots in the neighborhood he grew up in. My parents immigrated to this country, lived in a neighborhood not densely populated by people of their country of origin, were in an unhappy arranged marriage situation, etc. etc. etc. When we were first entering the process of becoming parents, and were both terrified, we would have long discussions about the hows and whys of our fears. He was afraid of not being able to live up to his own parent's standards. I was afraid of passing on some of the abuse I faced. Eventually, this latter morphed into a realization that I had more resources than my parents ever had going at the start of the relationship, so that was already one advantage. As hard as it will be if our kid had any of the mental health problems that we have/had at least we know what that territory looks like, and know how to access the necessary resources better than our parents did. (Small comfort, if we need to do so in 10 years, but still...) This was enough for me to take the plunge...

How do I feel after birth? I am a reluctant mother. I knew this going in. I did not, and still do not have much interest in the first 6-9 months of life when the child is barely mobile and interactive. My partner felt differently. His taking the primary role during this period was one of the conditions I needed met before agreeing to build a family. Even still, it hasn't been easy. I look at my post doc mentor, female, extremely successful, still single, no children, certainly has a career I would give almost anything to have. Almost. Even when it was 6 months in, and my kid was not sleeping through the night, there was something about coming home to a family, the prospect of an older child, and many years down the road another adult in my life who is as close to me as my partner is to my in-laws is not worth giving up. On one level, its not rational. I don't like irrational things. I have no idea whether I am giving into societal forces here, or primal/hormonal urges, but it is what it is, and this is where I am.

Do I regret being a mother? My partner and I are in a horrible 2 body problem. It puts a huge amount of stress on our (3-way) relationship. He has a permanent job lined up at a university that has a great department for him, and a lousy one for me, so I'm not sure I would want to accept a dual hire, even if it were to be offered. This leaves me searching for a TT job in a few months in a major metro area, with 1.5 years of my 3 year postdoc eaten by a very rough end of pregnancy and lots of sleepless nights during the first year of my child's life. This does not do good things for my CV. But then I go to the zoo, and my kid wants to climb over the fence to join the gorillas and baboons in play. And somehow, its okay. Again, it is totally irrational, and I don't understand it. I don't believe in the magic of motherhood (because I didn't start feeling a magical attachment to my child until very recently), but I have no way of explaining these feelings other than magic right now.

So yes, I regret being a mother many days. Sometimes more often than at others. But I keep going, just like I kept going with my PhD inspite my doubts because I knew that if I could only get through this hard bit, I want(ed) what was on the other side. And maybe there's more to the analogy there... I know a lot of people who go into a PhD because it is the next thing to do. Many of them realize their mistake and stop in the middle. Some fall in love with it and are successful. And some finish their degree, but are not happy with the directions it has led them in life. However, for a PhD, all that is at stake is 5+ years of your own life...

You are a brave woman for posting this. Thank you for making me think.

CM Doran

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I loved your honesty in this post...and the honesty of your commentors.  It is rare to know what makes our own selves tick,and to be comfortable with our own decisions, and to be non-judgemental of others.  I love the differing opinions here, but everyone here wants to be honest, and respectful.  It's great reading.  The one true fact is that we don't live parallel lives...we can't ever know what our life would be like if we decided this or that--we just make that decision and live. Thanks for writing and pondering.

Christine Beavers

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Hi Jade,

Excellent post; it inspired me to write my latest blog post.  I applaud you for making a decision and sticking with it. Too many women feel pressured or obligated to procreate. Motherhood is not the end all of life- such a major decision should be made in private, and with no bias.

 

Best wishes,

Christine 


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Hi Christine,

Thanks so much- your post is excellent. I couldn't leave a comment on your blog because I don't have accounts at the options, but please know that I am honored to read your story. I can't even imagine how hard that would be and how strong you are as a person. You really are an inspiration!

Hi CM: Thank you for your comment. I am happy to share and give people more to think about, the way so many people have done for me. Also, being anonymous makes it a little easier, I think. Reading many of the scimom posts, I felt inspired to think deep about why I am not a mom. I find writing is very helpful for depression and so in a way, it was a bit of therapy for me too.

Barefoot: I love your comment. I will come back to say more later tonight.

 


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Thank you Barefoot, for that intense introspective. You did a lot of soul searching also, before having a child. I definitely think having a partner who feels secure and competent in their ability to be a parent makes a big difference.

I think being a reluctant mother is ok - you have a support system in place. If you need a break, you can get one. And hopefully you never feel so overwhelmed to the point you can't stand it.

Feeling loved is the main thing for kids (IMO) so if you can always make sure your child knows they are loved, I think they can handle the stressful times in the family (and in your work life) much better.

It's important children do not feel responsible for the problems, do not become a target for projection of one's own insecurities and unresolved issues.

Kids are born loving. It's grownups that teach there is an opposite. If I had a kid now, my goal would be to teach them to see love as much as possible, even when it is difficult.

Could be a fun blog post for everyone: What lessons from your own life would you want to teach your children or are you teaching your children today? How much different is what you thought it would be like to how it really is when it comes to teaching children?

 

 

Rowena Morris

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Hi Jade

Great blog. Fasciniating how watching your Mum struggle resolved you not to have kids. I watched my Mum struggle too but it resolved me to have a career and a well adjusted family. All my borthers and I have finished uni and gone into scientific careers due to Mums inspiration. She didn't have the stellar career her brains were capable of but she did manage to pursue a scientific career and install a love in science and the environment in her kids. She had three children very close in age. She struggled but chose not to be a stay at home Mum. I came home from school to an empty house from the age of 9 onwards. Mum was not there only for an hour, however my older brothers were there. I loved that time to ourselves. 

Mum taught me juggling is hard but it can be done. After reading your blog I realise I should complain less and enjoy my kids more.  It is fun to play chasings in the park and cuddle those little people. Just like writing a paper can be frustrating so to is raising kids. But there are momments when the results work and that make it all worthwhile. I have numerous friends without kids. I need these ladies in my life. We need all types!

In my blog to #scimom I wrote about how watching Mum raise kids, ignore housework and have a science career inspired me to try the juggle. I've learnt you can't have it all at once. Patience is the only solution for me, I'm still wokring on that one.

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Something that is very important to me is to be open about being a scientist – a woman scientist, in particular – who has children. The data don’t paint a rosy picture for scientist mothers, and this is in part because of the biases we all have related to women in science(and especially regarding women in science with children). My hope is that, by being open about being a scientist mother, I can do my small part to normalize the idea of women scientists having children.

How do I try to achieve this? I mention my children in class sometimes (even though I’m sure this makes me seem less serious to some students.) I have artwork by my kids in my office. I tweet about my children and the germs they all-too-frequently bring home from daycare. If a student group asks me to give a talk in the evening, I tell them that I can’t make it because I will be home with my kids. I mention my kids sometimes on this blog.

Another thing that I did in the past is have my children* in my Twitter avatar. At some point, I changed to the little red Daphnia**. I think the little red aronia is fun and distinctive. But, thinking about all this more recently, I’ve decided to go back to the avatar of me with my son. In some ways it feels silly, since it’s such a small gesture. But then I am reminded, that sometimes those small gestures matter. I was recently told that seeing the juxtaposition of me tweeting that I got tenure with my avatar dikoko sitari (at that time, a picture of me holding my daughter) really resonated with some younger women scientists and gave them hope that it is possible to be a women in science and have children.

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