2 people every 1 are dying from this...not a real emergency, dont you think?  I mean compared to malaria and polio.  And what school do you go to to get acupuncture training anyway?  The National Academy of Acupuncture?

But how did this make the news?

I just don't understand why people swear by accupuncture. I have a friend who thinks it's awesome. It's a bunch of old world hokey-ness!

Dude...no it is not.  There is no story here!  They just say upon autopsy they find holes in hearts and lungs....but none of the deaths were attributed solely to acupuncture!

It's old and chinese that's why people lap it up.  They must know what they're talking about they've been doing it for years!

I'm going to have to STRONGLY disagree with you on that one, Will. I think that there's not enough carefully controlled studies to suggest it has anything but a psychosomatic effect.

I don't know as there have been that many studies actually.

Some people think sugar pills work when they're given in drug studies. It's all about perception.

yes Jane, but not valid ones

They do need regulating like any other medical pratice.

Well it should be regulated in the same way.

Yeah like aura medicine.

We've been practicing it a damn sight longer than you guys have!

It hasn't been researched and it's safety validified in controlled testing. If it were, I couldn't say anything, but until that happens it's a fringe holistic practice with no scientific benefit.

Just because something's been done for a long time doesn't make it safe or valid.

No but Jade Ed said that it worked partly!

I meant medicine, not accupuncture. And I don't think the fact that you make a doctor retake his residency when he comes to the US makes him any less a doctor. I had to retake my driving test and the drivers here suck!

That's fine, but I could have a faith healer lay hands on me and pray and it too might work partly. That doesn't make it scientifically sound. It needs to be studied.

Drivers here do suck! I can't lie about that!

It depends on where you come from, Will. Some do have to completely repeat their residency and others can just take a couple tests.

I just think it's pretty judgemental.  I'd trust a european doctor just as much, if not more than a US doctor.

I didn't realize we were only talking about European doctors.

I didn't say they weren't well trained. I am just taking issue with the practice of accupuncture.

But if they don't have the facilities, they may not be trained in the proper techniques. Again, I am not saying anythign about the quality of foreign doctors!

Its medicine...I am sure if you reach doctor status in most countries you have to be relatively well-trained.  My point is that just because they do a practice in X-land doesnt mean I am going to buy it!  Well-trained or not...

BTW Jane, I am not a US citizen and I don't think they have the best doctors in the world!  I am just making a point.

Where are you from?

But WIll - how do you know they are good?  a urine test...?  Even doctors here need to be highly recommended to get my business

But there are lots of drugs that pass through clinical trials that later turn out not to be so safe and effective, or often have hideous side effects.  I think it says something that only a few people have been harmed and that someone within the profession is tring to do something about it.

haha.  I can imagine her going to the doctor and questioning them like the spanish inquisition.

Right, and that's why this article has been published, to have transparency and make sure that something is done. It's not that the practice is unsafe, but the way certain 'sham' doctors are doing it.

Yes Will, my health is very important to me and I dont just let anyone give me good advice...and true Nikki - I havent meant very many established MDs that recommend acpuncture.  and just a side note, not veyr many optometrists having had lasiks!

Yikes!

I can understand that.

My husband calls them wallet vampires.

I am now struggling to even get on the site as apparently I have tripped the flood controls.

No, it didn't hurt. I strained a muscle in, well, my ass, basically. It was a muscle that runs across the hip and gluteus and the spasm healed incorrectly (because I don't stretch after running- I do now) and I couldn't get the spasm to release.  The doctor put the needles into the muscle- pretty deep. They were in my lower spine and all along the area. Then he puts these little "jumper cables" for lack of the correct word onto each needle and there is an instrument that pulses electricity into the needle in the muscle. You can most certainly feel the pulses. It was for about 20 minutes. The needles are very thin. You do not feel them going in or out.

My friends who surf get it all the time for lower back pain and even for colds. I think the electrical pulsing thing is used for muscle problems and not for colds or treatments like that. I haven't tried it for non-muscular problems.

I have a friend who is professional level bowler and he uses it for muscle pain in his shoulder. His acupuncturist is also an MD.

I don't think it worked well because the injured muscle was deep and it was difficult for me to tell the acupuncture doctor where it hurt so he didn't place the needles in the right place. The massage therapist was very knowledgable in muscle anatomy and was able to identify it quickly and then use methods to break down the scar tissue on the spasm so it would release.

How the acupuncture is/was supposed to work is that the muscle can't heal because it is spasmed and because of the scar tissue. Blood isn't getting to the damaged area to heal it. So the acupuncture should increase the blood flow to the area so that it can be repaired. That was my understanding anyway.

I prefer massage for sports injuries. It's an hour of hands on treatment and I have access to the best right in my town.

But I would try the acupuncture again for something else. I like to try different holistic approaches and decide for myself if they work or not. I'll try almost anything once.

I had a friend who was an acupuncturist and she came over and put like one needle in the top of my head and one in between my eyes (that one was really relaxing).  Anywho I wandered across the street from my house at the time to the convenience store to go buy beer and when the Egyptian clerk caught site of a needle bobbing between my eyes the dude fainted.  I check to make sure he was okay and left my money on the counter and went home.

Maybe I'm just too linear in my thinking, but the idea of trying things like that seems dangerous to me.

Not for something like acupuncture because so many people do it. This doctor's office is always busy. Acupuncture is mainstream here.

I have a friend who is a health nut/alternative medicine freak so he is always recommending stuff. I always look it up first. One thing he takes is this colloidal silver.  The promoters of colloidal silver say how it kills virus and bacteria and parasites. He makes his own and ingests it.

I bought some and tried it in the lab and it did not kill bacteria. In fact it is ionic silver that kills them and not the colloidal. Colloidal was pretty ineffective against standard lab strain bacteria. But since my friend is older and really invested in his belief, I didn't tell him. The placebo effect could be enough so why ruin it?

There are a lot of things he promotes and I look it up and if I think it might be of value, I'll give it a try and see if it works for me.